Dominion Round Table is an article discussion format where we have several guests discuss one topic. Today’s discussion is on the Nocturne Preview Cards. To read last month’s Round Table on Donate, click here. To discuss this month’s Round Table, click here.
Beyond Awesome: Welcome to the 2nd Dominion Round Table everyone. I am Beyond Awesome, and I will be hosting today’s discussion. The topic is Nocturne preview cards.
drsteelhammer: Hi, I’m drsteelhammer, and I will be discussing the Nocturne preview cards!
aku chi: Hi, I’m aku chi, and I’m prepared to be wrong about Nocturne cards!
markusin: Hi, I am markusin, and I’ve lost an enormous amount of sleep this week. Maybe you can guess why.
Beyond Awesome: Now, that everyone has had a chance to play with the Nocturne preview cards, what are your overall Impressions of the expansion?
markusin: Empires was a treat for very experienced players. Nocturne brings in that fun factor! Lots of extra piles of cards outside the supply, and lots of card-shaped things that are not “cards” in the Dominion sense. It really has a mix of familiar and unknown.
drsteelhammer: I’m a little less excited about it than I was with the previous two, but it was still a lot of fun trying crazy things out. Night cards are definitely the ones that deserve a lot of attention, the strategy with them seems really unclear.
aku chi: Night cards shake up the game quite a bit. It’s going to take a while for people to appreciate that they don’t require an action and cannot be drawn dead.
markusin: In a sense, you can imagine them as treasures without the treasure type
aku chi: Yes, but they do things that very few treasures have done before!
markusin: Horn of Plenty is one of the only examples of a card that would work better as a Night card
Beyond Awesome: Speaking of Night cards, those were the preview cards for Day 1. Let’s talk about those. The 4 cards previewed were Ghost Town, Raider, Crypt, and Devil’s Workshop.
(Click Below for Slide Show)
markusin: Raider was the most straightforward, while Devil’s Workshop and Crypt were exotic. Ghost Town, you have to go for it if it’s the only Village and terminals are valuable.
aku chi: Ghost Town is an elegant use of the Night type. It’s a solid Village that aids reliability, a bit like Fishing Village or Coin of the Realm. I think you’ll usually want at least two in an engine, and you might just want them all!
drsteelhammer: The on gain for Ghost Town is very interesting since the timing is different than any other Village.
aku chi: Yeah, it’s cool that you can open double terminal and pick up a Ghost Town on turn 3 if you don’t see either of them.
markusin: That way, at least one opening terminal does not miss the reshuffle. Having the +action at the start of the next turn is very valuable. It means you can start your turn with Terminal draw.
Beyond Awesome: Dan Brooks wanted to mention some Crypt strategy. This was his strategic advice on the card: Let’s say that you have 4 Crypts in play and one in hand. You can put 4 treasures on the first one, 3 under the second, 2 under the third, one under the fourth and play a fifth, setting aside the treasure from the fifth. So they sort of act like Mint/Hireling cards.
drsteelhammer: Crypts are fun, I’m especially interested if they could help terminal draw
aku chi: I think that’s rarely going to be the best way to play with Crypt.
drsteelhammer: Yeah that sounds like big draw if you’re able to draw 10 treasures and 4Crypts! I assume you want Crypts if you actually want to get rid of treasures, or if you want to play them multiple times per shuffle.
markusin: Crypt does let you scheme your alternate treasures, in a way that is better than Herbalist. Typically, there will be one treasure you want to play more often, and coppers you want to hide away for a while.
drsteelhammer: Yes, and if that isn’t the case the decisions what to hide away become tricky.
aku chi: Crypt really encourages inconsistent turns, kind of like Archive. You aren’t going to consistently see all the cards in your deck. In my limited play experience, Crypt seemed pretty good anytime there wasn’t fast trashing. Crypt worked to set aside Coppers while building an engine, and it also helped smooth out money in situations where there was no extra draw or Copper thinning.
Beyond Awesome: It will be interesting to see how our perceptions of Crypt change over time. Anyway, quick thoughts on Raider everyone.
aku chi: In my limited play experience, Raider didn’t seem very powerful or compelling. I thought it would play like Relic, but it’s slower in two ways, so it’s rarely worth buying, I think.
markusin: Raider also doesn’t stack with a lot of other attacks, whereas Relic stacks with almost everything.
drsteelhammer: Pretty unimpressive so far, but that also have to do with the fact that in Nocturne games it’s easy to reduce their hand size first with Hexes, making it completely useless. I think the non terminal gold is a little underappreciated so far.
Beyond Awesome: In general, I think we can all agree, Raider is on the weaker side as far as Attack goes. At least, it’s non-terminal.
markusin: If you need money next turn, you begrudgingly take Gold instead
drsteelhammer: There are probably focused ways to make the attack part hurtful, but it’s hard to say right now.
Beyond Awesome: Anyway, let’s move onto the last Day 1 preview card, Devil’s Workshop. How does everyone feel about this card, and what your Impressions of Imp so far?
aku chi: Devil’s Workshop is quite a unique card, and it can be used in a variety of ways. I think you want to get the Imp-gaining to work, most of the time. One Devil’s Workshop is usually enough. Even if you want a Devil’s Workshop, you might not want to open with it. You need to have a plan to get to the Imps.
markusin: In a game with say Sauna, it could be powerful. Devil’s Workshop is very versatile at the start of the game. Gaining a Gold non-terminally or a 4 is very nice. Afterwards, you might just get a lot of Imps. They are very strong as well.
drsteelhammer: It’s really strong in the early game, I agree. The non-terminal gaining is quite nice, until you would like to start playing what you gain
aku chi: Oh, Devil’s Workshop is a tough sell if it’s the only way to get multiple cards per turn.
markusin: The first few Imps in your turn will be Labs, and that’s enough to help you kickoff. So it’s okay to overdo it on Imps a bit. But then it won’t gain Imps and it’s an Ironworks basically, and that can be good.
drsteelhammer: The Imps didn’t Impress me that much so far, nevertheless they’re often nice to have. It has the vassal problem of still being terminal even if you find a unique card (that isn’t non-terminal)
markusin: That’s right. There will be some games where Imp is not good
aku chi: Imps go less well with durations, it must be said. Better with Reserves, most of the time.
Beyond Awesome: I feel Imps are really good. And, there are a lot of decks where you can load up on them, and they are essentially Labs
markusin: It does have to be said and emphasized how good Imps are. From Devil’s Workshop at least, which can amass them trivially.
drsteelhammer: I didn’t want to make the Impression that they’re weak, they definitely pretty strong. I’m just a little more cautious.
markusin: They at least make you want to pause before playing Devil’s Workshop if you will gain one.
Beyond Awesome: Onto Day 2 previews
markusin: The Heirlooms
Beyond Awesome: Before we get to the Heirlooms, anyone want to say anything about Faithful Hound?
aku chi: Faithful Hound is better than I expected.
markusin: Yes, I agree with aku chi.
drsteelhammer: I’m not particularly excited about it.
markusin: It’s interesting when the discard effect is relevant.
drsteelhammer: It’s nice that they go to hand in some cases, but I rarely want a +2card there.
aku chi: I think it’s a nifty little card that can make the player feel smart by going after the synergy.
markusin: It makes some cards like Forum and Oasis better. Cards that you might want to load up on because they are non-terminal but force a discard
Beyond Awesome: Okay, Heirlooms, what are everyone’s Impressions of them? Do you love them? Hate them?
aku chi: I really like how Heirlooms are associated with a kingdom card: great design.
markusin: I like some Heirlooms, and am annoyed at others. The concept of heirlooms being attached to a certain card makes or breaks it. If you like an Heirloom but don’t like a certain card, that card will always be there with the Heirloom.
drsteelhammer: Love them! wish we could see them more often than we will.
aku chi: So far, I like all the Heirlooms.
Beyond Awesome: On Day 2, we were introduced to Cursed Gold, Haunted Mirror and Pasture. They show up with the corresponding Kingdom cards, Pooka, Cemetery, and Shepherd.
markusin: Haunted Mirror is one of my favorite cards. It shows up with Cemetery. It adds a fun mini-game to get the Ghost. And the Cemetery is pretty good on its own. Kind of like an Event version of Count. Great with Terminal Draw or any draw.
drsteelhammer: Activating haunted mirror is quite cool. Although some decks with one ghost are really weird to play
markusin: Ghost plays a card twice next turn without using another Action.
drsteelhammer: Yeah I don’t think we’ve had a mechanic like that in Dominion.
markusin: It’s like playing two Lost Cities that draws the set aside card and a copy of it at the start of your turn. Ghost also works at Night, setting aside any Action card you gained during the buy or Night Phase.
aku chi: So, Haunted Mirror allows you to get exactly one Ghost (absent unusual shenanigans), which sets up very inconsistent turns. Ghost playing a terminal draw card can represent 6+ extra cards every other turn. Wild!
I don’t have a good read on the power level of Cemetery yet. It reminds me a little of Doctor, in that you can trash fast early, but at the cost of economy, or trash bigger a little later. Really powerful with gainers
markusin: It is hard to trash with it early without a gainer.
drsteelhammer: It needs some support card to trash early. It’s very nice to accelerate trashing, I find it a little awkward to use it as the only trasher.
markusin: It’s nice how you can buy multiples of it, and the Cemetery can trash another one of your Cemeteries to avoid additional deck clogging
Beyond Awesome: Now, that we have discussed one Heirloom, what are everyone’s thoughts on Pooka and Cursed Gold?
aku chi: Cursed Gold really mixes up the opening. And there’s an important decision on whether to use the Cursed Gold. It plays very differently depending on the rest of the kingdom.
drsteelhammer: Not using cursed gold get’s you only 6 coin on the first shuffle! That’s often rough.
aku chi: Pooka is awkward. If it’s the only way to trash Coppers, or the only way to increase handsize, it can be worth it.
markusin: Pooka is an example of the downside of Heirlooms being tied to a certain card. The Cursed Gold actively works against the effectiveness of Pooka. It is intended that way, but still, Cursed Gold makes you choke with Pooka sooner. Pooka really wants a treasure gainer of some sort to be reliable draw. But as a trasher, it cycles and finds your Night cards and Treasures.
aku chi: There are a few cards that can fuel an all-Pooka draw engine, like Banquet or Conquest, but it’s pretty inconsistent, and usually there are better options.
drsteelhammer: You really like the trash early, but it’s also a weird time to play terminal draw. It does play nicely with night cards indeed. Otherwise, I’d probably prefer other way of trashing treasures.
markusin: It finds your Cursed Gold too. If there are other trashers for the curses, you might want Pooka to find your Cursed Gold to buy lots of good expensive cards. It’s not a terrible card power wise.
drsteelhammer: But you need to keep up with the curse trashing, a lot of expensive cards aren’t worth the curses. Unless you can get rid of them quickly.
Beyond Awesome: Now, let’s talk about the last Heirloom pair. How does everyone feel about Shepherd along with Pasture?
markusin: Shepherd is pretty strange. I am convinced it is not very good early on. But, Shepherd makes me want to green earlier. Like, I’ll get the Shepherd right before I plan to green, or just when I start greening. And then your deck somehow gets better as you add Provinces? It flips the expectation a bit. If you do find your Shepherd, it can draw your deck. But only if you’ve started greening quite a bit. This is what I mean by it being an expectation-breaking card.
aku chi: Shepherd is a really cool card. It enables some new strategies that green early and often. But, it’s not like it makes a straight Estate rush viable, or anything. You still need to interact with the rest of the board. Pasture being in the kingdom with Shepherd make Shepherd a reasonable opening, I think. If you aren’t planning to trash your green, of course
drsteelhammer: Yeah Shepherd openings are nice, and I gladly trash coppers over estates early in those games
markusin: I find I don’t tend to open Shepherd. If there is Mill or Cemetery or something, then, maybe.
aku chi: Adding green makes the Shepherd decks more inconsistent, but increases the drawing power, which is interesting. So, Shepherd goes great with reliability cards like Save and Gear.
drsteelhammer: I’ve managed to build two separate decks that had Shepherd as their only draw, it’s doable if you find a way to get a Shepherd in your starting hand.
markusin: The Pasture at least makes the Estate rushing a touch better.
drsteelhammer: Copper trashing seems to be the key, in my opinion.
aku chi: Yes, Copper trashing is very helpful.
Beyond Awesome: What I like most about Shepherd is it’s a card that makes you care about Estates.
aku chi: Agreed.
markusin: If there is good trashing, you should still get a Shepherd to prepare for the Province gaining phase
drsteelhammer: Something to keep in mind is that estate pile outs are a lot more potent.
markusin: Cannot forget about the Pasture VP. It costs $2 as well, making Remodel variants better. A bunch of Heirlooms make Remodel variants better
Beyond Awesome: Day 3 Previews is where things got really interesting for Nocturne, and we were introduced to Boons. How does everyone feel about this concept? We were introduced to Blessed Village, Druid, Idol, and Fool.
drsteelhammer: Some Boons feel really weak.
aku chi: The concept of Boons is pretty cool, but it’s weird how they can really vary in strength based on when you receive them (action phase, playing treasures, buying).
markusin: Boons are good on certain cards. Blessed Village is non-intrusive, but the Boons are marginal because it is only one. Idol can give you unwanted Boons, but you get more of them and the Boons can become overall positive over time. Honestly, Idol feels like a card that should not be looked over. Partly because of the cursing on the second Idol. I also find Idol kinda fun.
drsteelhammer: I like them the most on Blessed Village, as you can plan with the Boon you got on the next turn. Idol cursing is nice, the Boons are often awkward to get
markusin: Druid is a special kind of card that uses Boons. Even if the Boons on Idol are awkward, Idol is still good in the long run. It’s non-terminal as well.
aku chi: Blessed Village is Boons at its most unobtrusive. You probably would be willing to pay $4 for a Village anyway, so a little extra benefit on-gain is nice.
markusin: Occasionally, you get something really good off Blessed Village. The bonuses can be used at the start of the next turn, where you want to get the most help kicking off.
Beyond Awesome: Druid is nice because you know what your options are. Blessed Village is good because you can choose when to receive your Boon.
markusin: Two of the 12 Boons can draw at the start of next turn when gotten through Blessed Village. Another one gives +1 action at the start of next turn.
Beyond Awesome: We haven’t talked about Fool yet? Is the card strong? Weak?
markusin: Ugh, Fool. It feels like such a trap card, that hides being a trap card when both players fall for it.
drsteelhammer: Agree there. Fool is funny if you’re both going for it.
markusin: Lost in the Woods is kinda weak.
drsteelhammer: I agree, most Boons are not worth -1card. Especially not a random Boon.
markusin: The 3 Boons is very nice.
aku chi: I think it’s more Important to evaluate the strength of Lost in the Woods, because if Fool is uncontested, you only get it’s on-play ability once.
markusin: You can play against Lord Rat to see what happens if you are the only one going for Fool. Also, Lucky Coin is bad news for decks wanting to capitalize on LitW in the long run.
aku chi: Lost in the Woods is best in sloggy games where you have a lot of turns, have spare cards to discard, and Silver and Gold are good.
markusin: Maybe draw-to-x as well or Faithful Hound.
drsteelhammer: But then you discard the card you want to trash to fire…
markusin: Ugh, that happens. Honestly, I’ve been slacking with the Boon tracking. The Boons cycle, so you know which ones you won’t receive.
drsteelhammer: I think most people (including me) will overbuy this card because it looks fun. It’s probably wise to avoid it frequently.
markusin: It’s good if you can trash the Fool later with a Remodel variant or Sacrifice or something, if it’s not contested.
Beyond Awesome: Thoughts on Lucky Coin?
aku chi: Lucky Coin is cool. It reminds me of Delve. It really reduces the opportunity cost of Silver.
markusin: Lucky Coin is pretty cool and pretty scary. It helps money a lot, and it helps engines have trash fodder.
Beyond Awesome: Now that we have discussed Boons, let’s discuss Hexes which we were introduced to Day 4. How good are Hexes? Are they too strong? Too random? Just right? How do they compare to other Attacks?
drsteelhammer: Hexes are nice attacks. There are 2-3 inconsequential ones, the rest are often good.
markusin: Very effective attacks on average, if you keep receiving them. They are perhaps the nastiest in the early game. The Hexes stack very well with themselves, they have that going for them. I like the cards that self-Hex.
aku chi: I think the Hexes were well-designed. In a vacuum, they’re of similar power level, and there’s a lot of variety. Of course, some may hurt more than others in any particular situation.
markusin: One of the weirdest Hexes is “Bad Omens.” Discards the deck and topdecks 2 Coppers. Can that be helpful sometimes? It can help a lot of junk miss a reshuffle if you had a bad hand when that Hex hits you. But it also really hurts if you had a good hand set up.
aku chi: Bad Omens: Best art in Dominion!
Beyond Awesome: That’s one of the stronger ones I think. I mean, on some boards. Maybe, I’m wrong. It’s probably not that strong.
drsteelhammer: I think it’s on the stronger side.
aku chi: It does have the potential to help the victim cycle. And maybe they can make those Coppers miss the shuffle.
drsteelhammer: Weak ones to me are miserable, envy and the rabble variant
markusin: Envy is weak, except when it’s absurdly strong. Envy and Delusion alternate between being worthless and being amazing.
Beyond Awesome: Let’s talk about the self-Hexing cards, Cursed Village and Leprechaun, are these cards good? Is it worth it to Hex yourself?
drsteelhammer: Leprechaun seems strange to me.
aku chi: Receiving Hexes with Cursed Village is weird. Almost half the Hexes have no effect when buying a card.
markusin: You are playing a sort of roulette with Cursed Village and Leprechaun, which both have powerful effects in their own right. As aku said, Curse Village fires blanks a lot of the time. Leprechaun tends to hurt more.
aku chi: I don’t think Leprechaun is likely to be worth it unless you can activate the Wish condition. A terminal Gold gainer is already marginal, and the Hexes can really sting. But, Leprechaun is a cool niche card in engines that need gaining.
markusin: Leprechaun also has the effect of gaining Gold every time, even when you get Wish.
drsteelhammer: Yes that is very much preferable to the Hex so making that work should be the priority.
markusin: Yes, although you can open Leprechaun on 3 if Gold is super Important for some reason. Cursed Village is sometimes very good in decks with terminal payload.
aku chi: Cursed Village can be great with the right support (like Storeroom), and is generally a great card to have in your opening hand. Overlord as Cursed Village sounds amazing…
drsteelhammer: I’m very happy that we get the draw to x Village, finally. Adding the Hexes looks ok to me, don’t know if it was necessary.
markusin: The first Cursed Village is a Lost City, but you need to play at least one Village before you start with terminal discard effect synergy. So if Cursed Village is the only Village, you definitely need multiple to have the relevant synergies pay off which means more Hexes. Yay!
aku chi: It doesn’t take much for Cursed Village to be about as strong as Lost City. Even disappearing money is fine. But Remodelers are great.
drsteelhammer You do need multiple, but there are so many synergies. Even playing Village, a trasher and another Village is really strong.
markusin: Cursed Village has a more varying power level that Lost City. Lost City is consistently good. Cursed Village can range from meh to absurdly good.
drsteelhammer: It’s more like a (slightly less powerful) City Quarter,
Beyond Awesome: I think on some boards, Cursed Village is really strong and other boards it’s pretty meh. If there is other draw and other Villages, I think you go for that. Anyway, onto Skulk and Werewolf the two Hexing Attacks from day 4, thoughts?
markusin: The Gold + Skulk(stop card) is maybe not much different than opening Silver, but the money is spikier and the Hex attack hurts early on. And the +buy on Skulk makes sure Gold can help engine building as well.
aku chi: I haven’t played with them much. Werewolf seems very strong. It avoids the perennial terminal draw failure of drawing another copy dead, which is cool.
drsteelhammer: It’s hard to measure how many Werewolves you want. Only picking them up for Hexing seemed bad to me.
markusin: Werewolf does not play the same every game. When there are Villages, go crazy on them. If not, you get a few maybe. They are not so good for cantrip engines.
Beyond Awesome: I think you get it for the draw first and the attack second.
drsteelhammer: Yes, they’re best if you can use them for both.
markusin: They are still Smithies, but they do something when drawn dead, so you can overbuy them a bit.
Beyond Awesome: That’s typically what I do, overbuy them, that is.
drsteelhammer: We’ll know more once we figure out how Hexing compares to other Attacks. I suppose overbuying is a good way to get there
aku chi: I’m sure somebody has done some Werewolf + money simulations.
Beyond Awesome: And, now, for the last day of previews, Day 5. Vampire, Exorcist, Pixie, and Necromancer!!! Let’s first discuss Exorcist first. Thoughts on this non-terminal trasher/gainer.
markusin: I overbuy Exorcist. It’s a versatile trasher. But it’s a single card trasher that costs 4. Many of the single card trashers we know cost 3. It lets you get multiple Ghosts though. Great with Gold gainers I personally love the interplay between the three Spirits
aku chi: Get those Ghosts! Having alternating Ghosts is such a huge boon to reliability. If you can set up Ghost on a Smithy variant (not that hard), you start each turn with 6 extra cards in hand!
drsteelhammer: I haven’t gained it much yet, but you can be assured I will overbuild a bunch to get some Ghosts into my deck.
aku chi: Exorcist is also pretty good at trashing Estates. Non-terminal, replaces the Estate with a reasonable card that helps accelerate in the early game.
markusin: Will-o-Wisps draw themselves and Imps. Imps play Wisps. Ghost can play Imps or Wisps gained from Exorcist.
drsteelhammer: Opening with it also seems nice, Estate->Will O Wisp is strong in a deck that hast still a lot of Copper.
Beyond Awesome: It’s essentially adding an early lab to your deck.
aku chi: Exorcist is at its weakest trashing Copper, for sure.
markusin: It turns Silvers into Imps too.
aku chi: Silvers into Imps isn’t that exciting if I had to buy the Silvers. But strong if I’m gaining them incidentally.
markusin: But say with Lucky Coin.
drsteelhammer: Getting Imps and Ghosts seems like something you do after building quite a bit.
Beyond Awesome: Yah. But, once you have built, I think Exorcist helps make your engine more reliable.
markusin: The thing you have to realize is that Wisp is better than most 2 costs, Imp is better than most 3 costs, and Ghost is better than most 5-6 costs
aku chi: Ghost is the queen of reliability.
drsteelhammer: Hitting a nice target with costs is one of the most satisfying things in Dominion!
Beyond Awesome: Let’s talk about Pixie. I think it’s actually strong when you blow it up for two Boons? Would you guys agree? I guess it’s not super strong, but you pick it up on $2, and at some point, it will do something useful for you.
markusin: I agree.
drsteelhammer: It’s rare that you go out of your way for them, but they’re rarely hurting. And they’re stronger than their 2$ cantrip counterparts.
markusin: It’s true that it’s not super strong, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t strive to pick them up.
aku chi: Pixie almost never hurts. All upside. But, yeah, I wouldn’t go out of my way for Pixies.
markusin: You want to pop them for the buys, The Wisps, or the discard-treasure-for-$4-Action-card.
drsteelhammer: Or the one of the draws.
Markusin: And maybe the +1 card if you are closing out the game
aku chi: Wait. Goat!
Beyond Awesome: Oh man, Goat.
markusin: Goat us Goat.
drsteelhammer: Eats stuff!
aku chi: Goat is game-warping. What an unassuming monster!
Beyond Awesome: One of the best trashers ever.
markusin: Amazing, and helps you see your Pixies more. Pixie makes me feel like Boons were worth it for the game overall.
drsteelhammer: I’d still pick up additional trashing, but it’s quite the boost.
aku chi: Goat is an amazing tempo-free way to thin. Unfortunate if you draw it with 4 Copper on turn 1/2 though.
Beyond Awesome: Having your deck start with a trasher is really, really good.
markusin: Even with 4 Copper 1 Goat opening, maybe you were opening with a $4 anyway or Ambassador
aku chi: Maybe. But it’s undeniably a disadvantage to trash a Copper if your opponent can do the same thing and trash an Estate instead.
Beyond Awesome: Next Day 5 card. Vampire. How strong is this? I think it’s very strong? How does everyone feel about this card?
markusin: It’s very strong a lot of the time, but occasionally not worth it. I guess you get your power $5 attack card first, but after those in priority is Vampire.
drsteelhammer: I felt it was way too strong when I initially read it as well. I still think it’s quite good, it desperately wants draw, though.
aku chi: So, Bat trashing is slow to get going, but it will clean you out completely. It reminds me of Urchin/Mercenary more than a little. Thankfully, you can still play with the board a bunch with Vampire, because it gains other cards.
Beyond Awesome: It’s a non-terminal $5 gainer and a thinner.
markusin: You’ll want two Vampires if the trashing is sorely needed and/or you need to gain lots of stuff. And the Hex, don’t forget about the Hex Attack. In fact, the Hex attack maybe makes Vampire a Power $5 itself in the opening.
aku chi: I’d open with Vampire a lot of the time. Mostly for the fast access to Bat.
markusin: Good point about the Bat. Vampire is flexible in that it can even gain treasures or VP cards.
Beyond Awesome: And, now for the last card, Necromancer. How does everyone feel about this card? Is it any good or just a cool concept? Are there boards where this card can be nuts?
aku chi: I haven’t played with Necromancer yet, but it seems like a cool mind melting card.
markusin: I really like the card in terms of fun factor, and I believe it is fairly strong as well.
drsteelhammer: The mason underwhelmed me a little, but it gets lots of actions in the trash!
markusin: It comes with a mini-lookout effect in the early game, or Loan if you prefer that comparison. The Zombie Spy flat out sucks, and only there if you can’t do better than a cantrip. But the Zombie Apprentice, use it! Even when it looks like you are fine that turn without it.
Beyond Awesome: At first glance, I thought it was going to be crazy strong. But, having played with it, I think it’s pretty weak on most boards. Maybe I’m wrong though. It’s an interesting card for sure. I love how we start with 3 Zombies in the trash. That’s great.
aku chi: Overlord is one of my favorite cards, so I appreciate the flexibility of Necromancer (especially if something else is putting action cards into the trash). But, because of the face-down aspect, it seems like you won’t want to load up on Necromancers.
markusin: The more engine components you trash with Zombie Apprentice, the more flexible Necromancer becomes. It really helps you kick off each turn. Then you get more Necromancers to help use those components effectively, even getting around some on-gain restrictions like Cursed Village. You run out of cards to play it as, but then you fall back on the Zombies and that’s okay.
drsteelhammer: That’s where the spy comes in, he’s really inoffensive
aku chi: The fact that the trash is shared by all players probably adds some nuance to trashing decisions.
markusin: It’s also cool that it you accidentally trash a good card with the Mason, you can just replace the trashed Action with the bonus of boosting Necromancer. I just like the idea of starting your turn with Necromancer that’s been boosted. It gives you whatever you need to kick off if you’ve been using the Zombie Apprentice. And the Zombie Apprentice turns cards into a Lab for a turn, so it helps you not stall. I am saying a lot about Necromancer, but I want to defend it as it’s one of my favorites in the previews. I am fine if I end up wrong. It’s kinda wild and flashy, but there is still strategic depth underneath.
Beyond Awesome: Let’s wrap up. Final thoughts on Nocturne?
drsteelhammer: Everything still feels super new, can’t wait to get to the stage where I feel little bit more confident about what I’m talking about!
markusin: And I’m excited to be able to choose playing with certain cards at leisure online. The Nocturne cage matches will be exciting.
aku chi: I recently heard that only three of the revealed Nocturne cards don’t have any setup instructions (Implicit or explicit), which is pretty crazy. Even single Nocturne cards are definitely going to shake up kingdoms – especially the ones that bring in Heirlooms. So far, the power level of Nocturne cards doesn’t seem as consistently high as Adventures or Empires, but time will tell.
Beyond Awesome: I agree aku, but Adventures and Empires probably have the most concentration of powerful cards per expansion. I think Nocturne is more modest in power level, more similar to expansions prior to Adventures and Empires.
markusin: It’s nice that we have a break from Events and Landmarks, in exchange for Boons and Hexes. Adventures and Empires still get to feel special. The expansions post-Guilds are really colorful I find. (Not that I am bashing Guilds.)
drsteelhammer: And at least Nights and Heirlooms manage to be quite unique without getting overly complex.
markusin: It’s nice to have “niche” cards again through Nocturne. Night cards and Heirlooms both feel pretty elegant.
Beyond Awesome: Thanks everyone for participating!
aku chi: Thanks for hosting!
drsteelhammer: Yes thanks for hosting!
markusin: Thanks for letting us discuss the Nocturne Previews that had my attention all week.
Beyond Awesome: Next round table wl either discuss the Travellers or the remaining 13-to-be-revealed Nocturne cards, depending on when the next Round Table happens. See everyone next time!